Opponents of health care reform shook signs, shouted and heckled U.S. Rep. Dave Loebsack during a town hall forum in Cedar Rapids on Saturday. Compared to reports from other parts of the nation, however, the four forums Loebsack held in the 2nd District over the weekend were mild.

“Part of the job that I had today, I think, was to do the best that I could to explain the bills that are before us now,” Loebsack said. “My main job, however, was just to hear people and learn what they had to say. In that sense, I think the meetings were very successful, and I hope those who participated feel the same way.”

Across the country, congressional town hall events previously attended by only a handful of the most wonkish citizens have become shouting matches between opponents and supporters of health care reform. More often than not the elected official hosting the forum has ended up playing a sideline role to the action of the participants.

While there is no denying that Loebsack’s events in eastern Iowa were spirited, they did not devolve into the anger and violence seen in other parts of the nation. Before beginning his tour, Loebsack, a Democrat, acknowledged that emotions are running high and expressed his hope that there would still be opportunities for measured discussion.

“At every stop today that held true much of the time,” Loebsack said. “Clearly people are extremely passionate about this issue. And that’s especially true for those who are opposed to the type of health care reform that we are talking about. So, yes, there were folks who were very upset about one thing or another, and I did the best I could to hear what they had to say and to engage them.”

Loebsack’s largest and most raucous stop was the first of the day in Cedar Rapids, where more than 500 people crammed into an auditorium with a capacity of 432 and others were turned away due to space constraints. Even before Loebsack entered the room, Emma Nemecek, a Mount Vernon Republican who launched two prior unsuccessful campaigns for Iowa House, drew applause and boos as she paraded through the center aisle with a sign that read, “Obama Lies, Grandma Dies.” Loebsack, like U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, entered the room to cheers and jeers from those attending. Throughout the forum, opponents attempted to interrupt by shouting comments from the audience, but Loebsack, who had a microphone, ignored the heckling and continued to answer audience questions pulled from a basket.

Mount Vernon Republican Emma Nemecek was applauded by many attending U.S. Rep. Dave Loebsack's town hall when she raised a sign that read, "Obama Lies, Grandma Dies!!!"

Although most disruption was limited to verbal shouts — between audience members just as often as toward Loebsack — Cedar Rapids Police did remove two individuals when an argument involving a pro-reform sign escalated and the sign holder was knocked to the floor. After visiting with law enforcement about the incident, both were allowed to return to the audience.

Loebsack’s other stops in Mount Pleasant, Burlington and Fort Madison were much smaller and much less rowdy than the Cedar Rapids event.

“As I said, there are some folks who are really, really upset about a lot of things. And, I think many of them — perhaps most of them — are upset [by] misinformation that’s out there,” Loebsack said. “I did the best I could to explain what’s in the bill that I voted for and that we are now working on in the House of Representatives, and I hope that will convince some of the folks that some of their fears are a little bit unfounded. I think many of [their fears] are unfounded, but I still understand why there is so much concern. When we talk about health care, we are talking about life and death decisions. Given that, I have no desire whatsoever to de-legitimize their feelings on this.”

As expected, Loebsack fielded questions on end-of-life care and abortion. Perhaps not expected were audience request for Loebsack, a former college political science professor, to define socialism or discuss medical loss ratios. Despite all the input and activity, however, Loebsack said he didn’t really hear anything from constituents that he hasn’t already heard.

“Keep in mind that before these town hall meetings, I had already visited every hospital in the District and talked with health care providers. I come home nearly every weekend and, even when I’m just stopping at the Casey’s, I try to talk with people.  So, I had already heard many of the concerns that were voiced today, including those concerns on the side as to why we need health care reform,” he said.

“I think the real difference for me today was that it was an opportunity for 500 people in Cedar Rapids and 200 people in Henry County to all be in one room and express these concerns that I’ve been hearing for quite some time. I did hear all sides of the issue. I think that’s what is really important.”

The 2008 winner of the GOP Iowa Caucuses raised $304,673 during the first six months of 2009 for his PAC and disbursed $336,589, donating only $17,500 to candidates across the country. On the last day of the filing period, Huck PAC gave $2,500 to Team Vander Plaats. (The PAC paid out $131,000 in payroll and benefits for its employees, and it spent $72,100 for fundraising-related expenses.)

Huckabee endorsed Vander Plaats’ candidacy in June, keynoting a fundraiser for the Sioux City businessman that the campaign said brought in around $80,000 (gubernatorial candidates won’t file financial disclosure with the state until January). Vander Plaats was Huckabee’s Iowa campaign director during the 2007-2008 presidential caucus season.

Free and Strong America PAC, the political action committee of Huckabee’s caucus rival, Mitt Romney, contributed no money to Iowa campaigns so far this year.

“I suggest, you know, obviously, maybe they ought to be removed,” Grassley said during an interview with WMT Radio on Monday. “But I would suggest the first thing that would make me feel a little bit better toward them if they’d follow the Japanese example and come before the American people and take that deep bow and say, ‘I’m sorry,’ and then either do one of two things: resign or go commit suicide.

“And in the case of the Japanese, they usually commit suicide before they make any apology.”

In interviews today with MSNBC and CNN, Grassley stopped short of apologizing for the statements, but did say that he believed most people understood he was speaking “rhetorically.”

“Of course I don’t want people to commit suicide,” the Iowa Republican said. “But I do want an attitude in corporate American that’s similar to what they have in corporate Japan.

“[In Japan], people that run a corporation into a ground have violated their trust with the stockholders and maybe even the taxpayers — they take a very deep bow, they apologize, they are remorseful, they are contrite, they take full responsibility,” he added. “We have not heard the sort of apology, remorsefulness, contrition, that we ought to hear from corporate executives in America assuming full responsibility.”

Although legislation in response to the AIG scandal is expected to come out of the Senate Finance Committee today or tomorrow, it is unlikely that Congress can stop bonuses being given to executives of companies that have taken bailout monies.

Sources have also confirmed that Jane Norman, a member of the paper’s Washington, D.C., bureau for 20 years, has been laid off and will receive a severance package.

The Des Moines Business Record is reporting that Editor Carolyn Washburn and Managing Editor Randy Brubaker, in a memo to the newsroom, said Perkins’ last day will be Aug. 29 and Fuson’s last day will be Sept. 5.

Perkins started with the Des Moines Tribune in 1978 and has been the Register’s farm editor since 1993. Fuson has been with the Register for 25 years and has won several awards, including the Register’s top writing award and Gannett Co. Inc.’s 25th anniversary Outstanding Achievement Award for Writing.

]]> http://iowaindependent.com/4216/register-job-cuts-include-washington-bureau/feed 6 http://iowaindependent.com/2599/harkin-general-petraeus-owed-nation-independent-judgment http://iowaindependent.com/2599/harkin-general-petraeus-owed-nation-independent-judgment#comments Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:04:14 +0000 Douglas Burns http://iowaindependent.com/2599/harkin-general-petraeus-owed-nation-independent-judgment

U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, says the nation needed Gen. David Petraeus to think for himself and challenge Bush administration failures in Iraq — not soldier on as an “apologist” for what Harkin believes is a military-disabling and foreign policy-crippling debacle.

Harkin and U.S. Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W.V., were the only two senators to recently vote against the appointment of Petraeus as commanding officer for Central Command, which oversees both Iraq and Afghanistan.

“Here’s one of the biggest apologists for our war in Iraq,” Harkin said in response to questions from Iowa Independent on a conference call with media.

Harkin said Petraeus either buys into a broken plan or is functioning as a blindly loyal general.“Someone like that who’s been so promotive of what we’ve been doing in Iraq, why should we reward that?” Harkin said. “Either that’s what he believes or he’s just following the orders of Bush. You might say, ‘Well, a military person is supposed to follow orders.’ Well, not necessarily. We expect more of our officers, especially high-ranking officers, to exercise independent judgment.”

“We’ve had generals who have retired because they oppose Bush’s policies in Iraq,” Harkin said. “I have a lot of respect for that because I think some of those who retired felt that militarily this was not the right thing to do and it was ruining our military.”

Harkin, a Vietnam-era Navy pilot, said his vote on Petraeus was specific to the man, not an indictment of the military or career officers. In an earlier interview he had suggested that U.S. Sen. John McCain’s military family tree has him rooting in “dangerous” ground for responding to foreign policy matters.

“I was an officer in the military so I don’t have anything against the officer corps, for crying out loud. There are a number of great officers in the military, and I’ve met a lot of them. Not only are they smart and bright, but I think they have a healthy outlook on the role of the military in terms of what we’re doing in the broader context of the world community.”

Harkin’s views of war and chain of command issues, the need to challenge authority in the military in certain situations, were formed early in his career as a young aide for former U.S. Rep. Neal Smith, D-Iowa, during a trip to Vietnam, according to his Senate bio.

As a staff member accompanying a congressional delegation to South Vietnam, he revealed to the world the infamous “tiger cages” inside a South Vietnamese prison camp at Con Son Island. Withstanding tremendous pressure to withhold the sensitive information, Tom’s photographs and detailed account of the tiger cages were published in Life Magazine, exposing a cover-up and unearthing the shocking, inhuman conditions political prisoners were forced to endure. As a result, hundreds of tortured political prisoners were released.

Like former White House press secretaries.

But now we have Scott McClellan, 40, White House press secretary from 2003 to 2006, writing something of a tell-all book on the Bush administration during the sale of the Iraq war and the post-Katrina blundering.

I have much trouble with former political staffers writing dishy books after having the privilege of serving behind the curtains of power. It’s the job of the press to get back there and reveal the warts — not the job of well-paid Benedict Arnolds who jump from what should be high-minded public service to the low road of celebrity cable TV commentator.

For a year and a half in the mid-1990s I served as the Washington, D.C.-based communications director for U.S. Rep. Pat Danner, D-Mo.

For most of my tenure she was a two-term congresswoman. As a result of this lack of seniority our office had limited power, although we did speak in Congress for a wide swath of Missouri, and her membership in the conservative Democrat Blue Dog organization, which would swing over on some GOP initiatives, gave us more influence than most two-termers.

When you have the privilege of serving in this capacity, of being in the office when speeches are written, votes are determined and arguments aired, part of the deal is that, upon leaving, for good, bad or indifferent reasons, you go on your way. You don’t rip your former boss in a book or magazine article. I didn’t run over to the Kansas City Star and offer to write a piece for one of its Sunday sections when I left Danner’s employ. She taught me a lot about politics. End of story.

If political leaders suspect they are going to get McClellaned, they will put more of a premium on loyalty than robust thinking. They will isolate themselves even more, and the nation will be worse for it. There should be trust — not blind, unthinking trust, but trust in the offices of our elected officials.

For those of us, make that much of the nation, who have strongly believed what former Bush confidant and spokesman Scott McClellan reportedly writes in his controversial new book, the “revelations” about alleged Bush deceptions and incompetence are powerful confirmations on long-held instincts of the sort one prominent Carroll High School graduate holds.

Charles Neu, the younger brother of former Republican Lt. Gov. Art Neu and a son of former 26-year Carroll Mayor Arthur N. Neu, has been with Brown University for more than 30 years, including a stint as chairman of that school’s history department.

Neu has dedicated his life to studying great men, and he finds no greatness in George W. Bush.

“He never had much of a serious purpose in his life,” Neu said in a recent interview with the Carroll Daily Times Herald. “He never really even had much of a business career. He’s not even well-educated though he had a chance to become well-educated, but not the will to do so. And this guy ends up leading the nation? He’s doesn’t even have good verbal skills. He’s clearly a person who doesn’t read very much. You just watch him speak and struggle to find words.”

Neu’s comments carry some weight because of his estimable background. These are things he should say in public.

McClellan writes from the inside what Neu said from the outside.

The book, “What Happened Inside the White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception,” is slated for release next week, but prominent news organizations like The New York Times as well as bloggers already have their hands on it.

According to The Times, McClellan uses the book to charge that the president was engaged in “self-deception” and that Iraq was a “serious strategic blunder.”

The Chicago Tribune reports the book recounts an evening in a hotel suite “somewhere in the Midwest.” Bush was on the phone with a supporter and motioned for McClellan to have a seat.

” `The media won’t let go of these ridiculous cocaine rumors,’ I heard Bush say. `You know, the truth is I honestly don’t remember whether I tried it or not. We had some pretty wild parties back in the day, and I just don’t remember.’”

Some of this can be filed under titillating, but most of it appears to be in the category of rehash for McClellan.

Even for those who have nothing but contempt for the president, McClellan’s book should be highly troubling. It follows a dangerous trend in which close advisers to presidents, both Democrats and Republicans, use their post-job memoirs (often released while presidents are still in office) to reveal what should be private conversations on policy and process and personalities in which the commander in chief and his circle can debate without fear of a town crier looming in their midst.

Attacks of conscience are different. If you quit over a decision you think is disastrous for the nation, it is fair to air that reason, although the timing of one’s departure in such a situation should send a clear signal without words having to be spoken.

There is also an important place for works of history with staff members discussing presidents and leaders and their recollections of events and decision-making. Such books and comments contribute greatly to American learning and allow future leaders to learn from the past.

And, of course, revealing illegal activity is a different ball game altogether, obviously.

McClellan’s purpose appears to be much more malicious where President Bush is concerned.

In the near term Bush detractors may cheer McClellan’s book, but it is not good for American democracy.

(Photos: Top is cover of McClellan book. Second photo is of former Congresswoman Pat Danner.)

If no candidate gets 35 percent, the party has to hold a convention to choose a nominee, and that’s a realistic possibility in one Iowa congressional race.The prospect of a convention was a hot topic in Democratic circles in early 2006, and Ed Fallon’s gubernatorial campaign made a big effort to elect delegates at precinct caucuses and county conventions. But the convention talk cooled after Patty Judge left the race to form a ticket with eventual nominee Chet Culver, who won a four-way race (don’t forget Sal Mohamed) with 39.1 percent.

Even in a three-way race, a convention is a possibility if the math breaks just right. The Republicans came within 1 percent of a statewide convention for governor in 2002, when the three candidates all bunched up in the 30 percentile. Doug Gross emerged as the nominee, with only 35.6 percent.

That same year, Republicans actually went to a convention for the 5th Congressional District. Four strong candidates competed in the brand-new, solidly Republican district, and they landed between 21 and 31 percent each. Steve King landed at the top of that heap, and then turned that lead into a convention win. The rest is history.

Who attends a convention depends on what level of office is involved. For legislative seats, it’s county central committee members, with votes weighted by the size and party strength of each precinct. County offices are nominated by a county convention, made up of the precinct delegates elected at the Jan. 3 caucuses. Congressional district and state conventions are made up of delegates elected at the March county conventions.

The likeliest prospect for a convention is the Democratic race in the 4th Congressional District, with four candidates seeking the nomination. Republicans have two major three-candidate races: the U.S. Senate race and the 2nd Congressional District.

Prospects also exist for conventions in local contests. The definition of percentage is less than straightforward in elections for more than one seat, such as at-large county supervisor contests. To determine the 35 percent threshold in these races, the Code of Iowa specifies a “percentage of votes” method. To get at this number add up all the votes cast for all the candidates, including write-ins. Then divide it by the number of seats available.

For example, look at the 2004 Democratic supervisor race in Johnson County. Eight candidates were running for three seats, and a total of 20,905 votes were cast. Divide that by three, and the baseline for calculating percentage is 6,969.

Johnson County Supervisors, 2004 Democratic Primary	votes	percentage of votes	percentage of voters	TV Percentage
Terrence Neuzil	5,060	72.6%	54.4%	24.2%
Pat Harney	4,627	66.4%	49.7%	22.1%
Rod Sullivan	3,187	45.7%	34.3%	15.2%
Mike O’Donnell	3,060	43.9%	32.9%	14.6%
Rick Dvorak	1,998	28.7%	21.5%	9.6%
John Schneider	1,339	19.2%	14.4%	6.4%
Julie Gilmere	1,134	16.3%	12.2%	5.4%
James Knapp	446	6.4%	4.8%	2.1%
write in	54	0.8%	0.6%	0.3%

This formula does not factor in the common dynamic of under-voting or “bullet voting,” in which supporters of one candidate don’t use all their votes in a vote for two or vote for three race. Instead, bullet voters vote only for their favorite candidate. You can’t use both, or all three, of your votes on that candidate, but you don’t have to use all of your votes. It’s a common campaign tactic, but one that’s usually done sotto voce so as not to alienate supporters of other candidates. If you want to crunch some math, add up the total votes cast for all candidates plus write-ins, then divide it by the number of voters. This will give you a “votes per candidate” number, illustrating how many people cast some sort of bullet vote. In our 2004 sample race, the 20,905 votes were cast by 9,305 voters, meaning the average voter only cast 2.25 votes for supervisor out of a possible three.

Calculating percentage of voters, by dividing the candidate’s results by the total number of voters, produces a lower percentage but provides a more reliable assessment of how many people supported a candidate. Another common, misleading method in a vote in a two-or-three race is to add up all the votes and divide each candidate’s vote by the grand total. This is often seen on local TV and produces seeming paradoxes like candidates winning with 17 percent.

Another seeming paradox happens in a race where four candidates are competing for three seats. It’s possible for a candidate to win support from a majority of voters, yet finish in last place, as in this 2001 Coralville contest. Over half of the voters supported Bream, yet he drew the least support and lost.

Coralville City Council, 2001	votes	percentage of votes	percentage of voters	TV Percentage
Henry Herwig	744	80.0%	70.4%	26.7%
Dave Jacoby	732	78.7%	69.3%	26.2%
Tom Gill	682	73.3%	64.5%	24.5%
Bob Bream	614	66.0%	58.1%	22.0%
write in	17	1.8%	1.6%	0.6%

]]> http://iowaindependent.com/2383/primaries-by-the-percentages/feed 0 http://iowaindependent.com/2047/hispanic-newspapers-in-iowa-an-emerging-voice http://iowaindependent.com/2047/hispanic-newspapers-in-iowa-an-emerging-voice#comments Sat, 08 Mar 2008 00:17:37 +0000 Douglas Burns http://iowaindependent.com/2047/hispanic-newspapers-in-iowa-an-emerging-voice

In 1874, German immigrants in Carroll County launched The Demokrat, a  German-language newspaper, with the declaration that the publication would battle to preserve the interests of recently arrived immigrants against “nativisim and fanaticism.”

Sound familiar?

The Demokrat was the forerunner of publications like La Prensa, the western Iowa Spanish-language media organization that wins the Google Search title for Hispanic newspapers in the Hawkeye State. It’s based in Carroll, nicely positioned in western Iowa within speedy reach of many Latino-rich communities.

The emergence of Spanish-language papers in Iowa shows why learning Spanish is a key asset for Iowa’s white native population. Let’s look at the numbers:

What The New York Times says:

At the moment, an estimated 114,700 Latinos are in Iowa, a 28 percent increase since 2000, according to the Iowa Division of Latino Affairs. In some small towns, nearly a third of the citizens are Hispanic, although about half the Hispanic population is concentrated in five Iowa cities, including Des Moines.

Iowa, like other parts of the nation, is in the midst of change as more Spanish-speaking immigrants move into the state, taking jobs in meatpacking, corn and egg processing plants. Evidence of their growing presence comes in the form of new Spanish-language newspapers, radio shows and mom-and-pop stores in fading downtown areas.

Let’s look at some even more localized numbers.

Using 2005 and 2006 estimates, the Census  reports that 16.7 percent (2,830) of Crawford County’s population of 16,948 is Hispanic. In the county seat of Denison, using the latest Census numbers from 2000, 17 percent (1,274) of the city is Latin.

These numbers clearly show a demand for the product La Prensa editor Lorena Lopez is putting out in western Iowa twice a month. But her enterprise is more than just commercial. She is an advocate for the Latin community.

Why is that needed?

The answer is simple: brown is the new pink. Here is excerpt from a story I wrote last spring.

East Carolina University political scientist Peter Francia says he doesn’t generally quote comedians.

But Francia, co-author of a provocative study on the gay marriage issue in rural America’s presidential voting in 2004, says funny man Bill Maher has the perfect description of the 2008 election: “Brown is the new pink.” In other words, a possible GOP strategy will be to scapegoat Hispanics with immigration issues in much the same way homosexuals were politically posterized in rural areas with Bush team posturing against gay marriage and Karl Rove-inspired hyperbole that made the debate over same-sex unions sound like a collective referendum on the Bible, country music, cold beer at college football games and the right to smoke cigarettes while fishing.

Now let’s get into the history of La Prensa in a story I wrote for the Carroll Daily Times Herald about a year ago.

The 2-year-old Spanish-language paper, La Prensa (The Press), is a family operation, the product of an ambitious mother-son team originally from Nicaragua but with deepening roots in Carroll.

Published twice a month, La Prensa, a free tabloid, is distributed at several locations in western Iowa including Carroll, Storm Lake, Denison, Spencer, Perry, Ames and Fort Dodge. Distribution stands at about 6,800.

Editor and founder Lorena Lopez, a former television personality in Nicaragua, launched the publication in May 2006 with her son, Carlos A. Arguello, a Carroll High School and University of Northern Iowa graduate.

With a master’s degree in communications from Central American University, which has a campus in Managua, Lopez became a recognizable face on Nicaraguan television in the 1980s. She even hosted the Miss Nicaragua pageants for a time.

But the same professional drive that finds Lopez getting exclusive interviews with major American politicians landed her on the persona non grata list with the Nicaraguan government. She produced a controversial piece about homosexual activity among teen-age boys forced by the Army into remote areas for service.

Lopez said the fallout from that series is complicated to explain, but it is one of the major reasons that she found herself in California in 1993, along with sons Carlos and Nauj (Juan spelled backward).

While La Prensa is Hispanic-owned and operated, Latinos aren’t the only ones spying opportunity for these papers in Iowa.

This is from a story I wrote on Iowa Independent.com a few weeks ago.

Humboldt newspaper publisher Jim Gargano sees parallels between Iowa’s burgeoning Hispanic community and his own Italian family.

Coming of age in the 1950s and 1960s in Fort Dodge, Gargano listened to his grandmother, Rosalia Maggio, speak Italian in his hard-working home.

“I learned both languages when I was growing up,” Gargano said. “Fort Dodge had a lot of Italians back then.”

He recalls hearing anti-immigrant smears about Italians from time to time.

Today, as a community leader in north-central Iowa, an area that is increasingly Latino-rich, Gargano on occasion will hear echoes of that bigotry in comments from some white native Iowans about Hispanics.

His answer is simple:”You can like or dislike the Hispanics, but they are going to be here.”

With shared immigrant experience as motivation, Gargano Communications launched the Spanish-language newspaper La Voz “The Voice” in late 2007.

The Daily Times Herald and Iowa Independent have collaborated on a number of project in the last year, including much political coverage:

Here is an example:

Chris Dodd is interviewed by Lorena Lopez, editor of La Prensa, and Douglas Burns of the Carroll Daily Times Herald and Iowa Independant on 10/25/07 at the Moose Lodge in Carroll.

The interview with the Democratic presidential candidate and veteran U.S. senator from Connecticut is in both Spanish and English with Lopez asking the first three questions and Burns the following four.

The Senate rejected that amendment, which would have dismantled much of the existing crop subsidy system. The Lugar-Lautenberg amendment was defeated on a vote of 37-58.

There were five notable absences on the roll call vote. Those skipping the vote were Sens. Joe Biden, D-Del., Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., Chris Dodd, D-Conn., John McCain, R-Ariz., and Barack Obama, D-Ill., all of whom are currently running for president.

The Lugar-Lautenberg amendment suffered the same fate as a similar amendment offered to the U.S. House of Representatives' Farm Bill in July. Rep. Ron Kind's alternative farm bill was defeated in the House on July 26.

The Senate will continue debating amendments to the Farm Bill on Wednesday and Thursday, with the highly anticipated Grassley-Dorgan amendment scheduled for a vote on Thursday morning. The Grassley-Dorgan amendment would cap farm program payments at $250,000 per individual.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., announced Tuesday that the Grassley-Dorgan amendment would be one of three amendments that will be subject to a 60-vote threshold. The other two will be an amendment offered by Sen. Amy Klobuchar, D-Minn., and an amendment offered by Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H. The Klobuchar amendment would further limit payments to wealthy farm operations by tightening gross adjusted income restrictions. The Gregg amendment would alter medical malpractice laws.

Gregg will speak early on Wednesday on two other amendments he has proposed to the Farm Bill, one to remove a provision that would establish a "Farm and Ranch Stress Assistance Network," and one that would remove a provision relating to market loss assistance for asparagus producers. Votes on these two amendments are expected Wednesday.

In honor of Cpl. Clem Boody, the flag will fly half-staff at the Iowa State Capitol Tuesday, Dec. 4